Dive into the captivating world of indie thrillers with self-published sensation Mike Grist. In this illuminating interview, Mike shares his remarkable journey from collecting rejections to becoming a prolific writer in the thriller genre. His narrative prowess spans from dystopian science fiction to gripping zombie apocalypses, revealing the evolution of his craft and his unyielding commitment to meeting reader expectations. Join us as Mike opens up about his challenges, the art of handling criticism, and the inspiration drawn from his intense interests in sports and fitness.
Can you tell us about your personal journey to becoming a self-published author?
I collected my first sheaf of rejections from traditional publishing aged 19, with a literary dystopian science-fiction novel inspired in part by the mind-bending work of Iain M. Banks. All those no’s didn’t discourage me, but I decided to take a sideways step into short stories, to see if I could improve my craft on a shorter scale before tackling another novel. Over the next 10 years or so, during which I finished my degree in Psychology and moved to Tokyo, Japan, I wrote probably a hundred short stories, some only a few thousand words, some as long as ten thousand.
As I wrote, I collected more rejections, along with acceptances. My big goal in the middle of that was to qualify for Science Fiction Writers of America membership, which required three short sales within a year’s period at pro rates, which was something like 5c a word.
When I hit two pro sales toward the end of the ten years, with long, literary science fiction tales that banked my first serious money in publishing, the goalposts moved. I started back in one novels. Inspired by literary heroes in the SF and fantasy, I wrote a long epic fantasy novel, and a sequel. No acceptances, sadly. I re-worked that book endlessly, trying to beat it into a shape the trad publishers might like, but no dice. I wrote a trilogy set in a post-apocalyptic, noirish Tokyo-like city in the Arctic Circle, about psychic vampires eating memories and heroes that dived into minds. Still, no dice.
It was around this time I decided to self-publish. I had faith my writing was solid after the short fiction sales. I believed there was an audience for my work, so I started publishing on Amazon. The epic fantasy sold a little, and picked up an audiobook contract with Podium, which was further encouragement. The SF vampires resolutely refused to sell, so I pushed on in another genre, aiming for something a little less literary and a little more mainstream, the zombie apocalypse.
Walking Dead was in its heyday, and I was a big fan, so I took the concept on its head, twisted it in a sci-fi direction, and wrote a nine-book series. This series afforded me my first real taste of self-publishing success. I wasn’t close to making replacement income yet, but it was real money, and I re-invested it all in marketing and editing for the books to come.
By this point, I was hooked. There was no going back.
What has been your biggest challenge as a self-published author and how did you overcome it?
The biggest challenge I’ve had is writing something readers want to read. That sounds kind of flippant and perhaps super obvious, but it runs deep. My earliest writing was absolutely from the heart, really weird stuff that threw every ounce of creativity I had at the wall to create puzzlebox stories that were narratively tricky, featured whole glossaries of made-up words that were never explained in the text, and concepts, characters and worldbuilding features that could only be inferred over the length of the book.
I loved that. The short story audience I appealed to loved it as well, but the novel-reading audience I had access to via Amazon didn’t seem to. So I set out to learn.
It’s been a long, hard road. I’m not someone who slotted perfectly or easily into the thriller mould, though I love them. I have now written 9 books in the Chris Wren series and two in the spin-off Girl Zero series, and I have made some pretty huge changes to the texts of those books, in response to the audience’s feedback.
Why do that? Because I want to reach more people. All the edgy, literary things I’d been doing were getting in the way, and the endless creativity began to seem a little bit like a crutch. People often say that they could write a Dan Brown or a James Patterson thriller, because they’re so simple, but I can attest that simple is hard. It’s a kind of gold standard. I’m constantly learning to boil down my brain’s first, second and third thoughts into the cleanest, clearest, most exciting story I possibly can.
These days, I aim for greater realism, and thrills, and constant advancement of a twisty (but not fatiguing) plot. It is a challenge every day to think of what the reader wants from the stories I write, and marry that up to what I want to write in a middle ground that’s both creative, exciting and pays the bills.
How do you handle criticism and negative reviews, especially being self-published?
I look every day for negative reviews. When I get one, I feel blessed. Sometimes, of course, they are useless. One reviewer said they’d be better off reading a cereal packet than my book. Another said they’d rather be punched in the face than read another one of my books.
Those are good for a laugh, but I’m really looking for genuine, honest criticism that I can potentially take on board and use to make my books better and to make myself a better storyteller and writer. Of course, not every review needs to be taken on board, and one negative voice in a chorus of positives wouldn’t make me second-guess myself or change course drastically. But I listen.
If the same thing comes up multiple times, I pay attention. I’ll see if I can make changes, both with my backlist and the way I write going forward. It was because of this, listening to negative reviews, along with a whole host of other techniques I employed to tune in to what readers wanted from me, that I was able to bank my first 10k month back in 2021. That was a dizzy time, when for 4 or 5 months I was making considerably more from writing than I did from my day job.
Things have stabilized since then, but I’m still always on the lookout for the reader who’ll help me fine-tune my work.
What are some hobbies or interests you have outside of writing?
I’ve been playing the sport Ultimate Frisbee since university, over 20 years ago. If’ you’re not familiar with it, I’m not surprised – it’s more than just tossing a frisbee on the beach to a dog. Two teams of 7 line up and play a game that’s part football, part netball, part American football. One team starts with the disc in possession and tries to work it up the field, only by passing, until a member catches it in the endzone, which runs the whole width of the far side of the pitch. It’s an incredibly dynamic game, allowing ample room for moments of team and personal glory – layout dives to catch a disc in the corner of the endzone are a particular favorite. I still play, regularly going up against opposition half my age. It keeps me on my toes – and I love it when they grumble about how fast I am. I know I’m not massively fast, but it’s good to outrun guys in their 20s.
I’m also generally into fitness. I used to go to the gym with the goal of gaining mass and getting swole, but carrying a lot of mass is anathema in frisbee, so my goal now is to be lean, light but body-weight fit. I do beep tests every other day, which involve running back and forth on a 20 meter stretch, as the time slots get shorter and shorter, until I gas out in a series of dead sprints. I also have a weights vest and use that for push-ups, squats, dips and pull-ups.
How do these interests inspire or fuel your creativity?
The main character of my thriller series, Chris Wren, is about my age, though he’s much bigger and stronger. He does some of the same fitness activities I do, and has sustained similar injuries that I have. A couple of years back I damaged the meniscus in my left knee, which made sports difficult for a few years until it very slowly healed. Wren has all kinds of injuries like that, many far worse, since he’s getting shot and stabbed all the time. But my experience flavors his.
The habit of fitness is also similar to the habit of sitting in the chair and writing. Sometimes all we want to do is sit and watch TV, but I tell myself in those times, when you really don’t want to run, or really don’t want to write, that’s the time when you most have to. It generally works, but I certainly slack of sometimes. Being able to be disciplined is key.
Is there an overarching theme or message that you aim to express across all your work?
Humans are fragile. I think that’s the deepest thread in my writing, and it carries through from my fantasy to my science fiction, from my zombies to my CIA agents. Everyone is born with and raised to have different needs inside them. Everyone needs love, attention, safety, exercise, stimulation, and all manner of other things, and we all need those things in different proportions. Some people are born psychopathic, or sociopathic, or narcissistic, or sadistic – where their needs are radically different than most people.
When a person doesn’t get what they need, whether because the need is insatiable or unreasonable, or the people around that person aren’t able to provide it or wilfully withhold it, that person goes bad. Like a rotten fruit. These become the villains in my stories. And the scary thing is, they’re often not that different from the hero. We all exist on a spectrum of good to evil. I love to draw parallels between Wren and the villains of his stories. Wren had an extremely traumatic childhood, but that was chased by an adoptive father who reframed all his misery into a positive outlook and a desire for justice at all costs. Wren’s villains often had similarly horrible upbringings, but lacked the positive steer that Wren got. And they turned bad.
We’re so fragile. Even Wren himself is fragile at times – he gets night terrors that take him back to his childhood, he doubts himself and his decisions, he worries that he can’t give the people in his charge the support they need.
Perhaps that’s the ultimate lesson in my writing. It’s about being kind to others, but also being strong enough to draw a line in the sand, when kindness won’t work.
What of your book(s) are you the most proudest of, and why?
It has to be Saint Justice, the first Chris Wren thriller. I have hammered that book on the anvil of my brain so many times over the years, reworking the story to be cleaner, crisper, clearer and more exciting, while keeping all the story movements mostly the same. It reflects many hundreds of hours’ worth of work, and it’s currently the best it’s ever been. It makes me proud that I’ve kept on putting the work in, and improved as a writer and storyteller.
What is your most recent book and/or what are you working on currently?
My most recent book was Zero Day, the second in the Girl Zero series. It’s set in Haiti, a horrifically crime-infested island, which I’ve never been to. I did a lot of research, I took on board all my learning from previous books, and applied it here. It’s a high-concept tale told in what I think is a very realistic way.
I’m currently working on Wren book 10, Hand of God, about a space-based ‘kinetic’ weapon – basically a long rod of metal that can be flung at the Earth from orbit to cause massive damage – that falls into the wrong hands.
Is there a book project you have in mind that you plan to write one day? If so, can you tell us a little bit about it?
My next series will probably be a spin-off into a different sub-genre, that of Crime murder mystery. Both Wren and Zero’s tales are big, often involving huge conspiracies that threaten global order. I want the next series to take it down a notch, featuring a few murders, probably set somewhere in the UK near me, with a twisty investigation and a stunning denouement. I’m pretty excited about adding this string to my wider Wren-verse. He may even make a cameo, which has been great fun to do with both Wren and Zero crossing over into each other’s stories at times.
Once each character has their own series going, I would further love to bring them together for big Avengers-style team-ups, where they use their own sets of skills in different ways, but all contribute to bringing down the bad guy.
You can find Mike Grist on his web site, or on Facebook.
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